Pinus nigra - the problem with an increment of thickness

(Mateusz Hudzik) #1

I’ve a question about back budding on BP (Pinus nigra) it would be possible to create. i have in my small collection quite old (at least 12 yrs) seedling of that pine and I have no idea where I make mistake because my tree don’t grows to a thickness as fast as Jonas’s JPB and don’t create back-budding. I would like to achieve shohin size in informal style.
Could You give me any advices what I should do in next growing season. I know I have to leave one branch like a sacrifice branch.
I feed this pine well, I use full balanced fertilizer. This year I transplant this pine from pot to colander. I use well-drained soil.

Sorry for my english

(Jonas Dupuich) #2

Hi Mateusz - you’ve got it right about the sacrifice branch. Without encouraging more growth, the trunk will not thicken. A bigger pot and lots of fertilizer will also help, though Austrian black pines aren’t as vigorous as Japanese black pines so expect slower development.

The photo at the bottom of this page spells out the basic process well:

(Mateusz Hudzik) #3

Thanks Jonas. I will follow with your advice. Finally I would like to achieve something like on these photos without right lower branch

(Jonas Dupuich) #4

Nice, that’s a fun tree. To get the curves you want, you can wire the main trunk line - including the lower portion - any time. That way when it thickens it’s already in the shape you’re looking for.

Due to the slower growth habit of nigra, it could take 4-5 years to get to the desired thickness.

(Sely) #5

Is the tree getting enough sun! I just had a sudden urge to reply and because it’s about that time of year to be working on our pines. This might be a lengthy post for me.
At the beginning I was trying to figure out the stages of pine development and magazines and drawings didn’t quite exceed my needs of a more visual approach. So here goes, and please correct me as I proceed.
I typically graft every year and my failed ones always get wired up, some a bit more crazy than others of course. And this time the tree is now either 3 to 4 years old.

By the following year, the wire is now really biting the tree and it’s time to take it off.
The tree is then left to grow free for a year or two, to heal the scar. At this time, which is about 6 or 7 years I start to become really impatient and start my decandling in summer and primary wiring in fall. Sometimes two years of decandling before any wiring.

As you can tell, sometimes we all have the urge to cut something but the best thing to do is give it what it needs to grow which is soil, food, water, and lots of sun for pines.

The one on the top left was wired crazy but you can see the sacrifice branch which is to thicken the trunk while work is done to the rest. And the other two photos is what happens when you use small gauge wires and forgot, which is now part of the tree. Talk about growing over the wires and then some.
Hope this helps.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #7

Hi again
First of all many thanks for every help and suggestion.
Below is small update of my BP.
In last weekend I added some movement in the trunk and top branch. I left bottom branch without wire to create sacrifice branch. I will update this topic in time of development of this tree.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #8

Hi all
Just little update of my topic.
In last summer I used decandling method to create back-budding and it worked perfect. My tree create few new buds on branches especially on outside bends. You can see mark on photo where tree made new buds. More of new buds is invisible on this photo, some of them I had to remove because they were in wrong places.

Happy New Year for all of You

(Jonas Dupuich) #9

Looks great Mateusz, am happy to see the progress - thanks for sharing!

I expect another year of decandling will help the tree start to fill in more. Keep up the good work!

(Mateusz Hudzik) #10

Hello everybody
Another update of my BP progression. 1st year after decandling - I’m still can’t believe it how many new shoot (new candels) this tree created after this process.

Now my tree is fertilise heavly with high nitrogen fertiliser.
Next step it will be repeat decandling process in June.
Many thanks Jonas for that fantastic articles on BonsaiTonight website.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #11

Hi all
Little update after another growing season.
Tree was rewired and shaped few weeks ago. Next step - carry on with decandling to achieve better ramification and shorter needles.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #13

Shaping branches with guide wire you can only bend section in one direction. The best is wiring everything what you want to shape. For tight bends on thick branches or to bend trunk I’ve using both technic + raffia to protect against cracks or break.
Hope that make sense

(Frank Corrigan) #14

I agree, guy wires will change position but often create uniform shape and concentrate the stress in one location causing breakage. They have there purpose in situations where that is the only goal. Using wire around the trunk or branch correctly will allow for both creating movement and change of position. This is important in order to develop the upper portion of the tree to reflect the movement in the lower portion already developed. It is desireable to have continuity in the design.

(Jonas Dupuich) #15

Wow, the tree filled in great this year! I really like the interesting movement of the trunk. Do you plan to work on the roots a bit the next time you repot?

(Jonas Dupuich) #17

Yes, once the foliage has hardened off, it’s a great time to wire.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #18

Is that about my tree? I’m a bit confused because Cjlopez4 start his topic here

(Jonas Dupuich) #19

Yep, your tree Mateusz - it looks great, really full compared with the pics you shared two years ago.

(Mateusz Hudzik) #20

Thanks Jonas. I’ll carry on with updates.
The plan for following year - it will be probably repotted to smaller pot (do some root works) or keep as it is to achieve better ramification (fertilising, decandling, wiring). Hopefully in 2020 tree will be ready to move to final pot.

(Jonas Dupuich) #21

Sounds like a good plan - looking forward to seeing the progress!